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- Group .- Group members (89) . 

Linux Peace


Distributions
Description:

I'm sick of reading about Kubuntu fans saying how much better KDE is than Ubuntu and GNOME and vice versa, what the hell are you fighting over, we're all using Linux! Why Linux users would fight over various distros just seems dumb to me. People are acting like Ubuntu and its deratives are the only Linux distros, and that somehow they are competitors?!
Aren't you forgetting about Gentoo Linux, Mandriva, Red Hat Enterprise Linux, Debian, Fedora, SUSE Linux or any of the other 200 Linux distros?

Join this group if you're tired of and against all of the groups consisting of "No Ubuntu bla bla bla"-, "Kubuntu is better than Ubuntu"- or "Ubuntu is better than Kubuntu"-bullshit!
Also while we're at it, people are fighting over different desktop environments, like "KDE vs GNOME" and so on, I find that just as dumb.

Personally I am a Ubuntu fan and I love Gnome, but that doesn't mean I don't like KDE or Kubuntu, or any other distro. Sure, some distros I like better than others, but I don't go on flaming the ones I didn't like.

Homepage:http://www.linux.org
Members:89
Comments:88
Created:Jul 1 2008
Changed:Jul 24 2008
Readability:readable for everybody
Membership:everybody can join

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 ubuntu....

 
 by TheRob on: Sep 7 2008
 
Score 50%

The oh-so-talked-about ubuntu... well,
ubuntu targets new users, trying as
hard as possible to be e free version
of windows... or at least a replacement.

..and that's a good thing, because it
makes linux more popular, however,
it gives the users a feeling they are
using some "special" linux os, and
that is very far from the truth.

I too had that feeling until I tried
out other distros and found out that
every distro has it's shiny spots,
ubuntu's is the easy of use... and
that's pretty much it.

and about gnome, it think Linus Torvalds
said it as good as it can be said:
"If you think your users are idiots, only idiots will use it."

I don't mean to mean to be an ass but
this crap about ubuntu being so great
has got to stop... really


\\\\\\\"life sucks, get a f***ing helmet alright!\\\\\\\" -Denis Leary
Reply to this

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 Re: ubuntu....

 
 by Punkrockwarlord on: Sep 8 2008
 
Score 50%

See, those are the kind of statements that really ticks me off, "Ubuntu is too popular and simple, thus making it bad"... No, I know people who've been working with Linux for many, many years, people who are so skilled with computers that I doubt I will ever reach their level, people who've tried extremely many distributions, yet they use Ubuntu both at work and at home.

And "trying as
hard as possible to be e free version
of windows..." what the hell??! I've got nothing to say about that remark other than that the stupidness of it really blows my mind...

Now I agree with you when you say that people, a lot of them, tend to believe that Ubuntu "is the best OS", completely false, I say. But then again, there's only so much you can do with ignorant people.

Also when I tell you that Ubuntu is my distro of choice, mind that I have tried Arch, Fedora, Mandriva, OpenSUSE, Mint, and, last and least Xandros, and yet I still came back to Ubuntu. I am not trying to say that Ubuntu is the best distro, not at all, I'm just saying it's MORE than simplicity. And I want people to be free to choose their distro without the influence of people trashing various distro's!

Also that dumb statement about GNOME REALLY tops he cake... Again may I remind you that people should be free to choose what they like? Personally I like GNOME, I love GNOME. I don't instantly start disliking KDE because of that, unlike you; yes, I know for a fact that you used GNOME not too long ago, and that you just started liked KDE after trying it a while ago. I doubt that you were an, in your own words, idiot when doing so. And I know that I'm not one, so that statement about GNOME is just utter bull!

Knowing that Linus encourages people to use KDE, I just lost respect for him. However I'm grateful for Linux, but I stand by freedom of choice!


sudo apt-get remove windows
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 Re: Re: ubuntu....

 
 by TheRob on: Sep 9 2008
 
Score 50%

Yeah , well, that was exactly what
I had expected to get :)

no problem, the windows statement
I knew you would react very strongly
to, it's just that I have even read
a lot of magazines that compare ubuntu
with windows :D so I just put the
pieces togheter :)

...oh okey, I can think of one other
good thing in ubuntu, and that is
aptitude, the fastest package manager yet
(don't know tho, maybe conary is faster
these days).

and yeah, I also thought gnome was really
great until I started missing too many
features and kde4 was out...
(bout 6 months ago or so) I started
out with kde and boy it was everything
I wanted it to be.

however, gnome is really easy to use,
I know that, and therefore is the
best choice for a lot of people.

I don't mean to start a fight mister I
am just tryin to make a conversation.

in the end, peoples opinions matters
,if there wouldn't be a kde vs gnome
fight going on, no new user would know
what would be for him or her :)

sorry for taking a crap on ubuntu tho,
and I really like your signature :D

//Robert


\\\\\\\"life sucks, get a f***ing helmet alright!\\\\\\\" -Denis Leary
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 Re: Re: Re: ubuntu....

 
 by Punkrockwarlord on: Sep 11 2008
 
Score 50%

No worries, all I mean is that all Linux users should stick together! Rather than fight over stupid stuff.

My reaction might have been harsh but as you said, it seemed like you took a large dump all over Ubuntu which I find very unfair, as I really love it (I am no programmer, but I consider myself familiar with Linux in general, and Ubuntu is my fave distro so far!).

And I like Gnome, it might be simple, but it can still be advanced enough to be productive, even for programmers and advanced users. Not that I have anything against KDE, in fact I think KDE looks great too!

Everybody's free to have their own opinion on stuff, I just find it unnecessary to fight over Ubuntu and such, I know there's a lot of ignorant, idiotic and maybe stupid users that think Ubuntu is better than everything else, but don't let Ubuntu suffer for it.

I like the new Fedora, might install it on my second PC in the near future!

TW, thanks for the comment on the signature, it's a quote from the Ubuntu forums so sadly I'm in no place to take credit for it. :p


sudo apt-get remove windows
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 Re: Re: Re: Re: ubuntu....

 
 by Fri13 on: Sep 13 2008
 
Score 50%

"My reaction might have been harsh but as you said, it seemed like you took a large dump all over Ubuntu which I find very unfair, as I really love it (I am no programmer, but I consider myself familiar with Linux in general, and Ubuntu is my fave distro so far!)."

As far I know (and I have seen), the anti-Ubuntu does not come from that Ubuntu is popular. It has reasons. And the reasons are that Canonical is littlebit like a Microsoft. It bash other distributions, not by purpose, but by it own marketing. It spreads the false information (not by purpose) with it marketing.
It tries to make all the deals for it self, because after all. Canonical is corporation there just like Microsoft and Novell. They are just using Linux as Operating System and all other application, to build their own products, what they markets for normal people as different operating system.

Telling the truth does not mean that you should give all the information right away on face of new user who does not want to learn computer at all. But it does not mean that you can twist the terms and information by only purpose to sell your own product.

I dont see Canonical as bad, but I dont see it good either. Canonical is like Novell, but in different way.

Actually what I see in bad way, is the Ubuntu community. Their total fanboyism towards Ubuntu, they edits the wikipedia and bash the _own_ "truth" on forums. Long term Linux users does not like it. Just like they dont like about Linux vs GNU/Linux or KDE vs GNOME wars.

Personally, I have get enough with all kind wars (Browser, Desktop Environment, Operating System, Office applications... You name it), but what Ubuntu brings, it is not all good. IMHO best thing what Ubuntu has done is to bring Linux in minds of hardware manufactures... but same time bad thing is, it only tries to make them to support Ubuntu, not the Linux. In this case the openSUSE community is better, because they are willing to offer help for HW manufacturers to build and upkeep drivers to devices what they build.

There are few distributions what are upstream friendly, one of those is Mandriva and others are Arch and Slackware too (and few other not-so-known). They (Mandriva) are doing great job by delivering Linux operating system for normal users, but still helping and working greatly with upstream.

I dont like to bash the other distributions, but we actually have problems and source for those are from community and commercial production. Commercial in good faith is good for all, but because it is almost everytime to support only own products and own business, it goes little bad, what fast turns to be the bad "In Good Faith".

We, as users have power to turn bad to good. We cant fight against it bad, because it just brings fighting. We need to fight against it with good.
We should inform new users what Linux really is (not just a kernel, but the operating system), what is GNU/Linux and what is Distribution. And how the open source community works. Because so many new users (usually Ubuntu because it is popular) believe that Ubuntu is someway a unique operating system because of GNOME. And as sad it is, we should teach to them the modular architecture of software system, even it is very complex thing to teach.

We should teach Ubuntu users the meaning of Ubuntu. Because now it looks like Ubuntu users are like own kind Tribe there.

As sad it sounds, but "Ubuntu Tribe" just fits almost perfectly for Ubuntu users. And they are little bit a hostile against others. (I dont say that other distribution users are much better, but they dont have usually such "tribes").


KDE4 is here to konqueror desktops ;-)
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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ubuntu....

 
 by TheRob on: Sep 15 2008
 
Score 50%

very well put!

I agree with you that it's great that
ubuntu has started a new kinda cooperation
with hardware manufacturers, I think
that is important.

//Robert


\\\\\\\"life sucks, get a f***ing helmet alright!\\\\\\\" -Denis Leary
Reply to this

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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ubuntu....

 
 by Fri13 on: Sep 15 2008
 
Score 50%

"ubuntu has started a new kinda cooperation
with hardware manufacturers, I think
that is important."

It is very great and important, as long it actually goes as it should go.

You make always drivers for Linux operating system, not for any specific distribution. And commercial manufacturers has tend to support only one(few) distribution, what is bad.

Thats why I like more OpenSUSE attitude, that they take care that drivers are for all distributions, because they make drivers directly universal mode to Linux operating system (kernel)so they come to all distributions then.

Problem is that now many Ubuntu user is demanding that hardware manufacturers starts supporting Ubuntu. That they place Ubuntu logo to device boxes to tell that it is design for Ubuntu.
Now we have got the Tux to be printed to device boxes and now it should be removed and replace by Ubuntu logo, or place Tux and Ubuntu together there as they would be two different OS's..

Thats why I dont like what Canonical and Ubuntu community is doing, with believing they have somekind special "OS". I just want that all what is done, is done right in the first place. I dont like to see Canonical to be Microsoft 2.0.


KDE4 is here to konqueror desktops ;-)

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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ubuntu

 
 by 24Scorpions on: Sep 15 2008
 
Score 50%

Fri13 wrote: "I dont like to see Canonical to be Microsoft 2.0."

- How could Canonical ever become Microsoft 2.0 when they don't earn any money on Ubuntu? (Except from support calls, but most use the forums for info anyway). It's still open source, it's still Linux!


Skrip ni sair ja leit.
Reply to this

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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ubuntu

 
 by Fri13 on: Sep 18 2008
 
Score 50%

"- How could Canonical ever become Microsoft 2.0 when they don't earn any money on Ubuntu?"

I dont mean that Canonical would come such big company in IT world as Microsoft, but it would start actin more like the Microsoft.

Microsoft rules the IT world with Windowses. You dont have much choise to choose other OS's like Linux or OpenBSD when you go to buy a market PC.
Same thing is happening for Linux OS among it's distributions. It is harder to find a PC what would not have Ubuntu on it but other Linux OS distribution.

You read only about Ubuntu on IT magazines, news, typical normal users wondering should they try the "magicall OS called Ubuntu".

There would not be anything wrong on Ubuntu if it would not be believed as "special OS". Ubuntu users should understand that they are actually using Debian. And what is most important, that they use same OS than all other distributions users do.
And it is important too to understand the community. The world of open source. They should know that Ubuntu users use same GNOME as does Mandriva or OpenSUSE users. They might have just different menu.

It is hard to tell truth for people, who believe only what they can see. Even that you would strike a computer science book in front of their nose, they would still believe that marketing hype what "Ubuntu tribe" spreads.

All hardware is currently done primarily for Microsoft Windows NT. It is not so long time when we got first officially supported Linux devices to market. And now Canonical and "Ubuntu tribe" wants to get only *Ubuntu supported* hardware. Because they dont understand what Linux in reality is.

We should inform the new users with history and about facts what is what and how things works. And Canonical is not doing good job with it's marketing. It is just a commercial company like Novell or RedHat but littlebit more "bad" on their blood, because no one is sure where does Canonical get all it's money because it gets money from strange places. Only sure thing is some of the money comes from support lines and their own support-platform application.

I have now followed few "big" IT magazines on my country, where many Ubuntu user brings Ubuntu in every discussion what there is. No matter is it about cell phones or Microsoft, it always turn to be "Ubuntu is best OS what you can get to run this, Microsoft/X is nothing!".
They are always speaking that how Firefox is part of best Operating System and how Ubuntu has better code than others and better support etc. And same time they referr Linux-distributions as "Linux-based Operating Systems" as Distribution == Operating System.

And every news or other post where is information about new hardware or posts about problems running the Ubuntu, they say "Have you make sure that your hardware is qualified to Ubuntu Operating System?" And if someone even question their "Operating System", they start bashing you right away saying that OpenSUSE, Slackware etc are other Linux-based Operating Systems and different than Ubuntu and you need to get supported hardware for Ubuntu and not for "Linux" because "Linux is just a kernel".

And they get this information from Canonical Marketing what is even against computer science.

So Canonical is acting more like Microsoft 2.0, even that it would not be such big company.


KDE4 is here to konqueror desktops ;-)

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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ubuntu

 
 by 24Scorpions on: Sep 18 2008
 
Score 50%

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re ubuntu

@Fri13

I understand what you mean, good post!

But the IT magazines I've read that has written about Ubuntu, focus very much on how user friendly the distro is. And to a normal windows-user, Linux is not very user friendly.

If a total Linux newb is going to try Linux, he needs something easy to start with. And Ubuntu is probably the most user friendly distro to start with for a user that never tried Linux before, so it's natural that they talk about it. But I agree that Linux should not be left in the shadow, of course. People should be told that Linux is the operating system and that there are other just-as-good distros. And they should know that they're using Debian and so on, and that they can use gnome on e.g. Mandriva.

But I think (and hope) that if a user starts with Ubuntu and likes it, he will eventually try out the other distros. (I still use Ubuntu myself, though)

And I totally agree that canonical should at least put the Linux logo on the home page, as should every distro.


Skrip ni sair ja leit.

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 Re: Ubuntu

 
 by Fri13 on: Sep 22 2008
 
Score 50%

Hmm... seems that "reply to this" does not work in this thread anymore.

"And Ubuntu is probably the most user friendly distro to start with for a user that never tried Linux before, so it's natural that they talk about it."

Yes, Ubuntu is very user friendly. But I would not say it is most easier to use. Because I have gave lots of help for old users (very little computer usage in their life + dificult to learn new things) and new users (Ex-Windows users who want to learn Linux) and I have found that openSUSE or Mandriva are best distributions what is out there for them. Why? Because those includes great tools for system management. It is easy for them to learn what to do without going trought forums asking things.

Still it is for me easier to take SSH to their computer and do the "magic" via CLI but I prefer the way that they get easy learning curving and if wanted, they can get deeper to learn more. Without knowing first the sudo and CLI what happens everytime with Ubuntu (I have gave many times a Ubuntu first, until I turned it to Mandriva and sometimes to openSUSE now when they got 11.0 out). The #1 problem is, that they feel littlebit "outsiders" because if few other their friends speaks only about "mystical Ubuntu".

So, then it is time to tell what the distribution means and the open source community. What I always try to avoid (they dont need to know that on first week). But when I tell them these things, they get the "Lightblub" over their head and they really understand the whole community and the work what is done. I wish same would be with most Ubuntu users but some reason they block their minds just for Ubuntu :-/

And I totally agree with you. Canonical should include Tux on their page. They should tell the people the Truth about Linux. They should tell that it is the operating system and not just a kernel, like it would be somekind microkernel.

They should add the Linux on their distribution name. First it was "Ubuntu Linux" but they dropped off the "Linux" because it was so "scary". I would say that they should keep it there, because it reminds about the truth and the software revolution what is happening.

But I think the reason for not include it is GNU. Because Canonical is huggin so much the FSF and Debian, they need to play with their rule with the political "GNU/Linux operating system, Linux is just a kernel" propaganda. They can not add Tux or Linux name to their distribution because otherwise, Debian and FSF could piss off. But Canonical does not understand that same time when they denied the truth of Linux, they play to pockets of Microsoft. Because everytime when someone says that "Distribution is same as Operating System" or "GNU/Linux is the operating system", you give just one reason more to Microsoft to add stuff to their operating system because they can say "Public believe that browser is part of operating system so we made it to be a part of operating system".

If I would have position to demand, I would right away demand Canonical to tell truth about Linux on their documents and sites, rename Ubuntu to Ubuntu Linux and add tux logo to their site too and tell that Ubuntu is just one distribution among others of Linux operating system!!


KDE4 is here to konqueror desktops ;-)

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 Re: ubuntu....

 
 by mrkennie on: Sep 25 2008
 
Score 50%

The beauty of opensource is there's usually something for everyone. There are many, many distributions out there now mostly because the people who created them thought that the existing ones did not suite their needs. I would say a good majority of those serve their user base very well. At the end of the day it's all opensource and in the true spirit of the community we should work together to make things better and stop arguing over meaningless crap.


There it is!
Reply to this

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 Re: ubuntu....

 
 by joe74 on: Sep 28 2008
 
Score 50%

yet another troll...


---
joe74
http://teoten.wordpress.com

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 Re: Re: ubuntu....

 
 by TheRob on: Sep 28 2008
 
Score 50%

well I have no idea what a throll is
but sure , if you say so mr. perfect :D


\\\\\\\"life sucks, get a f***ing helmet alright!\\\\\\\" -Denis Leary
Reply to this

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 Re: Re: Re: ubuntu....

 
 by joe74 on: Oct 15 2008
 
Score 50%

how do you know i meant YOU?
Anyway...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll


---
joe74
http://teoten.wordpress.com

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 Re: Re: Re: Re: ubuntu....

 
 by TheRob on: Oct 16 2008
 
Score 50%

thanks man, now I know what everybody is talking about :D

well, I just figured you meant me when you replied to my post :)

//Robert


\\\\\\\"life sucks, get a f***ing helmet alright!\\\\\\\" -Denis Leary
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 Gnome or KDE

 
 by R1c0 on: Sep 10 2008
 
Score 50%
R1c0R1c0
Freelance

As you said, Linus encoragous to use KDE, well, its his choice not mine :D
You also said the people are free to make their choice, so I dont think 'cause Linus <May Like KDE> make me lose my respect for him.


Reply to this

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 Re: Gnome or KDE

 
 by EDWARD0S on: Sep 10 2008
 
Score 50%

now im a big kde use specifically 3.5.9
and love my fedora 8

i started with the ubuntu xubuntu and kubuntu tried fedora7 and loved it and then upgraded to fedora 8 and loved it evercince i also have tried the fedora 9 and liked it too maybe ill go to 9 and keep it a kde 3.5 os with gnome and xfce as other environments i can choose from.
im not picky but kde is my fave jsut cause i can customizes it so much easier than gnome or xfce. now im not sayin its better its just my choice. now i also played with fluxbox and cant really figure it ou its really minimalistic and in order to run programs you have to use the terminal or use the RUN feature. if i can figure out how to make icons and run a window manager in fluxbox ill use that but i gots no idea. theres also blackbox icewm fvwm hackedbox pekwm ratpoison windowlab windowmaker wmx and xcompmgr also zenwalk and many other window managers but i also am looking fore file managers that may run it these window managers.

now im no a ubuntu lover mainly to defy all the other ignorent people out there who chose ubuntu only cause they didnt try something else

here is some distros

STUX
Magic linux
ultima linux
BOSS linux
kanotix
openbsd
bonzai linux
libranet
dsl
Sorcerer GNU Linux im considering <-
pud

and many others
take a look on http://distrowatch.com/


Linux, surpass the best. Leave it to the rest.
Reply to this

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 Re: Re: Gnome or KDE

 
 by TheRob on: Sep 11 2008
 
Score 50%

Yeah! sorcerer seems very interesting
indeed :D

if you try it, please post here pros and cons :D

//Robert


\\\\\\\"life sucks, get a f***ing helmet alright!\\\\\\\" -Denis Leary
Reply to this

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 Re: Gnome or KDE

 
 by Punkrockwarlord on: Sep 11 2008
 
Score 50%

I see what you mean, but I kind of do. I think people should make up a mind of their own about what suits them best, without influence of anybody, they should try all DE's and see what they prefer.

Personally I like all DE's, they've all got their ups and downs.


sudo apt-get remove windows
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 Re: Re: Gnome or KDE

 
 by gnomeartist on: Sep 12 2008
 
Score 50%

I'm a Gnome-Fan because the style is better then kde. A friend has got openSuse 11.0 and with this distribution, kde is not so good as Gnome. I agree that I'm not engage in kde but by opensuse 11.0, kde isn't good.



gnomeartist
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 Re: Re: Re: Gnome or KDE

 
 by TheRob on: Sep 18 2008
 
Score 50%

because the style is better?!?!?!?!
wtf is wrong with people nowadays!?


\\\\\\\"life sucks, get a f***ing helmet alright!\\\\\\\" -Denis Leary
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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Gnome or KDE

 
 by Fri13 on: Sep 18 2008
 
Score 50%

The theme can be very important for many users. This is one thing what GNOME understanded and made bretty easy to make themes for it. KDE4 was hoped to include someway easier than C++ way to make themes, what would bring more themes.

Themes ain't #1 on my list when I choose what DE I use, but they are in top5.

But I would not change to GNOME even that it has better looking themes, because I have such themes for KDE that I can easily edit my wanted outlook.

Seems just that most users does not care anything else than the surface, bling bling and not the actual usability how well you can configure your computer system to get your job done.


KDE4 is here to konqueror desktops ;-)
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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Gnome or KDE

 
 by TheRob on: Sep 19 2008
 
Score 50%

yeah! exactly my point also!

that is one of the reasons why I
switched to kde... gnome is getting
better all the time but it is still
(in my opinion) seriously lacking gui
features, that is why I switched over
to kde, about a week later, I removed
the gnome desktop and most apps... some
gnome apps are acutally great, like
gimp and....... well gimp is good :D

about themes... well, if there aren't
ones that one likes... and it really
bothers one... well, I made my own,
because... I don't mind ugly themes
but the default ubuntu theme,,, it isn't
a theme, it's digital torture :D

//Robert


\\\\\\\"life sucks, get a f***ing helmet alright!\\\\\\\" -Denis Leary
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 Skype

 
 by gnomeartist on: Sep 12 2008
 
Score 50%

Has got anyone of you Skype?


Reply to this

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 Re: Skype

 
 by Punkrockwarlord on: Sep 12 2008
 
Score 50%

I do, if you want you can message me for my skype name and add me.

And I agree with your opinion of KDE, plus visually, KDE is the one that looks most like Windows (in my opinion anyways).

Still, every DE's got their ups and downs, I'm sure.


sudo apt-get remove windows
Reply to this

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 Linux is Linux...

 
 by linuxgurl13 on: Sep 23 2008
 
Score 50%

...no matter how it looks.

My husband got me to try Linux over a year ago. The first install was Fedora. It didn't work to well for us. One of his co-workers suggested we try Kubuntu. When he installed it, I rarely went back to windows except to play EQ.

But even that didn't last long. Soon my whole hard drive was dedicated to Kubuntu.

Why do I like KDE over Gnome? Because it reminds me of windows which is what I was used to since the 3.1 days. Gnome reminds me of the iMac that was released in the late 1990s. We had some of the gen 1s that had been donated in the school's computer lab. I had problems with them that I think scared me for life.

I'm prejudiced, yes I know it, but they reason I have stayed with Linux is because it has been an easy switch. Not all of the programs/games I love are able to run in Linux yet.

Does my Kubuntu look like windows? yes, but it also resembles OS X. It looks the way I want it to, period the end.

I like testing out different distributions using virtual box. I can see how people use and "love" them just the same way that I do with Kubuntu.

I will say that Linux has got me more interested in how to customize my pc (personal computer - don't even get me started on a rant about how that's now used to describe a computer running windows) and make it mine.

All I have to say is big deal that Torvalds prefers KDE. To each their own. Gnome is easy to use, and so is KDE. (I haven't tried XFCE yet.) Why can't we all get over whatever hype surrounds the distributions that we have decided to use. Big deal. We all chose the one we like and continue using it.

Let's all just get along.


what do you expect?
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 Re: Linux is Linux...

 
 by Punkrockwarlord on: Sep 23 2008
 
Score 50%

Well said! You just said everything I'm for, haha.

It's not the fact that Linus prefers KDE that bugs me, but if he called GNOME users for "idiots" (I don't even know whether that's true or not, is it, TheRob?) then that's what bothers me. Because I don't have anything against KDE, Xfce or any other DE, I'm just happy being a Linux user, and I couldn't be more thankful to Linus for creating the kernel!

I really can't picture myself Linus calling Linux users who use GNOME for idiots, so I hope and believe that that statement is nonsense.

I use GNOME because that's what I first used when installing Linux on my machine so I've gotten used to it.

I'm against Microsoft and Windows, so I'm sad to report that I need Windows XP through VirtualBox to manage my iPod with iTunes, I tried installing iTunes in Wine but I had no luck getting the iPod to sync with it. I'd like to be completely independent from Microsoft, but as long as Apple stays stubborn and refuse to release iTunes for Linux, I'm stuck with XP through VB.


sudo apt-get remove windows
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 Re: Re: Linux is Linux...

 
 by Fri13 on: Sep 23 2008
 
Score 50%

"I really can't picture myself Linus calling Linux users who use GNOME for idiots, so I hope and believe that that statement is nonsense."

Well, that is true but same time it ain't.

Linus said to the GNOME developers in one case (Printing GUI and Windowmanager usability) that if GNOME developers keeps designing the GNOME for idiots, only idiots will use it.

He was referring the situation what is "blake" on GNOME developers. It is that everything needs to be simple as possible, without no options to "confuse" user.
GNOME idea is to get rid of all options what is not "must". Thats why GNOME developers are usually called as usability nazis because they like to shoot down every suggestion what they get from users by saying it would confuse users. And then they say that those who ask such things, should send patch etc.

Linus made lots of very important usability changes to GNOME and sended the patches. Long time no one even answered for his patches until he started the conversation with his humor.
It really opened the conversation and GNOME developers asked him to make patches again. So Linus writed about dozen new functions for Metacity and GNOME in few hours and sended them. Needles to say that they did not get way to mainstream but got shooted down again with "It would confuse user" mentality.

The usability problems were like Alt+Right mouse button what allows on KDE to resize window. But those were for something else what I dont now remember but when I readed those, I was thinking same as Linus, GNOME developers designs the GNOME such mentality that idiots will use it.

Currently I use GNOME, not because I must but because I want. Sometimes I go to use other DE to know what other "side" is doing. And everytime for me it is that I start feeling I am forced to do my things as GNOME developers want me to do. I cant do task as I want, but like they want.

And everything is fine so long as I only use Firefox and I play videos from USB harddrive or I use OpenOffice.org. But soon as I need to start doing even little more demanding filemanagement, GNOME will blow my brains off. I have used Nautilus, PCman, XFCE filemanager etc. And all the time there is the very wierd feeling that "Other hand is tied behind my back". Same kind as you get when you are forced to use a computer only with keyboard without mouse or vice versa.

Thats why I never link GNOME and Mac OS X because on Mac OS X it is simple, but everything happens very easily and intuitive. On KDE same thing is possible to get but needs littlebit tweaking but KDE4 is great about that... just needs to get grown to 4.3-4.4 versions.

In my holy opinion, Linus is right, GNOME is designed for idiots because it feels like that. If you do not have own mind to do things and you can follow the idea of GNOME, it should be very fine. I dont have problems for people who use GNOME, only if they start DE wars. As with anyone else too. I suggest GNOME for some people for who it will fit like glow on the hand. But some people will soon say that Linux is hard to use and they want to go back to Windows or Mac OS X and then I ask them give one change and I change GNOME to KDE and suddenly most are happier than with Windows/Mac OS X after that.

GNOME, KDE, LXDE, XFCE... you use what desktop environment you feel is right for you... no one cant blame you from that...


What is Linux and GNU/Linux?
http://tinyurl.com/532kb8
http://tinyurl.com/mum9x
http://tinyurl.com/qhuhg
http://tinyurl.com/3uaq48

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 Re: Re: Re: Linux is Linux...

 
 by linuxgurl13 on: Sep 23 2008
 
Score 50%

Quote:
I'm against Microsoft and Windows, so I'm sad to report that I need Windows XP through VirtualBox to manage my iPod with iTunes, I tried installing iTunes in Wine but I had no luck getting the iPod to sync with it. I'd like to be completely independent from Microsoft, but as long as Apple stays stubborn and refuse to release iTunes for Linux, I'm stuck with XP through VB.


I did leave out the part where when we got a new hard drive that it went in and installed XP on it. I just couldn't live any longer without some of my games. Although my older ones run well under wine, the newer ones, not so much.

Quote:
Linux users who use GNOME for idiots


I don't think its true, but *shrugs* who knows until one of us gets to ask him ourselves.


Quote:
Thats why I never link GNOME and Mac OS X


I said it reminded me of the iMacs from the late 1990s, they did not run OS X. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMac_G3

I don't really follow apple so I didn't realize that iMac is the term they now use for all their pcs. hehe

I did say my own desktop now reminds me a little of it because I have a dock for a few applications.


what do you expect?
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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Linux is Linux...

 
 by Punkrockwarlord on: Sep 23 2008
 
Score 50%

Hey no worries, until Linux becomes able to do EVERYTHING the Windows can, I'm sure many people either dual-boot XP and Linux, or have another HDD with XP installed, 'cos as you said, there's not that many games that will run well under Wine as of yet, but who knows? :p


sudo apt-get remove windows
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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Linux is Linux

 
 by EDWARD0S on: Sep 24 2008
 
Score 50%

you dont need windows at all try song bird out i use it

screen here

http://www.kde-look.org/CONTENT/content-files/90088-snapshot1.png


i can tell you how to install or read it on the site. it has the capability to sync and brows the music on a ipod of any kind.
as well as the iphone.


yeah so bill can shove that big corp. up his @r$se

as well as mr jobs i don't really like the i pods even though there tough.

you can also fix the i pod your self if you smart enough.


the image of song bird is the new beta build. 0.7.0

its free. 100%


Linux, surpass the best. Leave it to the rest.
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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Linux is Linux

 
 by Punkrockwarlord on: Sep 27 2008
 
Score 50%

Your are indeed right about Songbird, I love it, it's my favorite audio player. But what I mean by saying that I "need" iTunes is that I have to have access to the iTunes store, not only to download music but also artwork. Now I know you'll recommend gtkpod, but I've actually tried that as well, and with that being an OK solution, it's far from perfect. It's really not very efficient having to add album cover for each and every song, as opposed to iTunes' solution where it fetches everything automatically, and yes I also know this can be done in Songbird, but then again, I woldn't be able to transfer pictures or videos to my iPod, I'd need iTunes for that.

Goddamn you Apple and your fascist point of view, haha!

I really don't understand why Steve Jobs is so ANTI-Linux... I mean they make iTunes for Windows and not Linux, come on, that's just not right!


sudo apt-get remove windows
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 Re: Re: Re: Linux is Linux...

 
 by Punkrockwarlord on: Sep 23 2008
 
Score 50%

Well then that statement was somewhat nonsense... or at least incomplete.
But if the GNOME programmers chose to ignore their users' thoughts and tips, I think the fair thing to do would be to call the programmers for idiots, not its users.

(Just FYI though, I'm not calling anybody an idiot, I love both GNOME, KDE and whatever).

I agree that GNOME is easy to use, and that's great, but I cannot say the same about doing more complex stuff, I've done quite a lot with my laptop since I installed Linux on it, and I've had no problems using GNOME for anything.
With KDE I still manage to do stuff, but then again it takes more time (for me) because I'm so used to GNOME.
But as long as I can manage to do what I want with my computer using GNOME, I wouldn't call myself an idiot. (Nor anybody else).

So like I said, each is own.
I like all DE's ecause they all have their ups and downs.

And I totally agree on the flamewars issue, they're as dumb as the people starting them!


sudo apt-get remove windows
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 What's the deal?

 
 by psburns87 on: Sep 28 2008
 
Score 50%

Software is only a tool. A tool that is used to complete tasks.

If you are soldering electronics you would use a soldering iron. For copper pipes, you would use a blowtorch. A plumber is not an idiot for using a blowtorch. An idiot is a plumber using a soldering iron.

Ignore the idiots. Use the software that helps you efficiently complete your tasks. The software you use will not reflect your intelligence in any way.


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 Re: What's the deal?

 
 by Punkrockwarlord on: Oct 2 2008
 
Score 50%

Very well said! I completely agree with you!


sudo apt-get remove windows
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 Oh Well

 
 by AmuroRayVV on: Oct 3 2008
 
Score 50%

First thing. Hi everyone ^^ I just joining the group. So hi ^^

I read some of your post up there in this page.

So i can see some point :

About Linus's say : I thinks he has his own from not chose GNOME but don't say GNOME user are idiots. This is he wrong. The world of Linux is freedom so the user has his/her choise. They can chose GNOME, KDE, XFCE or orther, and i can say the one can chose what best for him/her is clever or intellgent not idiots. The idiots (in IT world not real world) its the one who cann't operation a PC and cann't learn to operation its even has many help ^^ or not using PC. The real world is realy realy wrong more.
--> Linus like us, he is a human, and we repect him for us can using linux ^^. But he wrong too, so don't follow the wrong and don't lose the repect for him.

Try the right or things that good for you just like psburns87 aready said. Softwares is just a tool to suit what you need so don't say KDE best or GNOME best or even linux is better than Win. Each has their strong point and each has their weak point. Just use what suit you the best. That's call freedom.

Amuro Ray VV


I'm not a native English so something will go wrong ^^.
Hope you have fun!

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