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- Content .- Fans  . 

Use a better toolkit/canvas


Topaz Brainstorm

Score 38%
Use a better toolkit/canvas

Downloads:  201
Submitted:  Jul 15 2008
Updated:  Jul 15 2008


Hey all,

It has been said in various places, GTK is old and horrible. And I agree. Its plain, boring and inhibits creativity for people wanting to do "new" things with canvases for themes.

Personally, I theme E17/ETK/EWL all in a relatively new and unused canvas called Edje. It gives the themer complete creative control over look, feel and animation. In GTK for instance, you cant effect how a button reacts to a click entirely. In Edje, you can make the button animate in all sorts of ways, or switch to different image/s like GTK currently does. Ive recently devised a system that can allow for user to re-colour images on the fly aswell, so most parts created by the themer can be coloured by the user.

The other positive is that Edje, built on Evas, in incredibly fast and efficient at rendering images. Gnome devs once loved all things Enlightenment, hell, the Enlightenment Sound Daemon is still used! :)
Id like to see Topaz use something better than GTK. And something drastic needs to be done to keep up with canvases like Edje.

Ive included a screenshot of a new theme im working on for comparison. I am in no means an experienced GTK themer, but its limitations are incredibly evident coming from an edje themeing background.

Ill also include a couple other fun things.
(The game is a functioning game written entirely in Edje (yes, its that powerful))

Thanks for reading!

NOTE: I am not suggesting to use E17, just suggesting the GTK canvas should have a drastic overhaul, to possibly match the power of Edje (or even incorporate Edje)

(Comparison og Edje VS GTK Pixmap)
(Video of an animated border.)
(A zero pixmap theme)
(A space game written in Edje/Embryo)
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 by eitreach on: Jul 15 2008
Score 50%

Well, I agree - as much as I can, seeing I'm only an end-user. I miss a bit of flexibility in what I use - many things simply look and feel alike, and a few makeovers once in a while generally doesn't change that. However, I believe there are certain very good innovators out there - Cimi, for instance. Credit should be given where credit is due.

I still stick with Gnome, though - Not E17. I have tried E17, and it just feels unstable and incomplete to me. However much things aren't flexible, at least they're stable in Gnome - and the innovators around who do what they can make the experience worthwhile for the eyes.

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 Not going to happen

 by marvin on: Jul 15 2008
Score 50%

E17 libraries are still under development, and not stable. GTK may be (relatively) old but it just works, and it is constantly being improved. It's here to stay.

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 Re: Not going to happen

 by Toma- on: Jul 15 2008
Score 50%

Interesting statement. EFL is stable and there are a few apps coming out now, that should be hitting mainstream. E17 is now in debian experimental aswell. You also say GTK is old and stable, then say its still getting improvements? The problem in GTK is that the core is old. Many new innovations have come out since GTK2 and the playing field has become different.

BTW, Im not suggesting people should dump Gnome for E17. They are 2 entirely different things.

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 Re: Re: Not going to happen

 by darkmatter on: Jul 15 2008
Score 50%

GTK+ is actually quite flexible, though it does have room for a great deal of improvement (I could name a few small issues).

However, you misrepresent GTK+'s limitations. It's less a matter of GTK lacking features needed for graphic artists/designers to do what they will, and is more a matter of blatant misuse of the toolkit by a great number of application developers (speaking from experience/testing). This... abuse... of GTK+ is even apparent within the core applications of GNOME.

Rather than reinvent the wheel, what is truly needed is 1)sane use of the GTK libraries 2)a few small fixes to GTK+ itself (being able to stretch/scale a bg image is a prime example), and, most importantly 3) engine developers who can rise above lack of vision (the "good enough" mentality) and actually implement an engine that is actually designed for themes rather than one that tries to pretend (rather poorly) that it is a theme.

Ubuntu Forums Staff
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 Re: Re: Re: Not going to happen

 by Toma- on: Jul 15 2008
Score 50%

Thats what it comes down to for us themers tho. A strong engine to allow creativity on. Personally, I can not code C, GTK, Python and im pretty ordinary at Bash aswell. This limits me to using other peoples engines in GTK and none offer the flexibility of Edje yet. There WAS some discussion on getting a gtk-edje engine going but in the end, the different code bases would clash. From what ive heard, its possible with QT4 to create an edje engine and also a QT4 gtk engine. This all ties in with another point id like to make, unified themes. It was discussed on the XDG mailing list a the topic fizzled away. I think the devs should keep that point in mind if they decide to do some sweeping changes.

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